On one hand, there was the feeling of being objectified. On the other, the author made mention of how the women contribute to libertarianism. I also thought, "Does it really matter?"
People like Cathy Reisenwitz and Julie Borowski made the list. One of my first thoughts was, "Shouldn't there be a men's list?"
Luckily, Cathy asked the same question in her article response. Something interesting to point out is that Cathy says that being on this list has boosted traffic to her site. Now that is definitely a good thing.
One criticism of this list is that some of these women are not even libertarian. I guess a certain one was a Mitt Romney supporter and ripped Ron Paul signs out of people's hands. Just read the comments on the article.
EDIT: To be clear, I, personally, do not see why nonlibertarians are being put on the list, no matter how "libertarian" they are. I would not like to be put on "Top 10 Hottest Conservative Women" or whatever.
After this list came out, an influx of libertarian listicles followed suit:
This piece of shit glorifies stupidity and extremism: "Top 10 Hottest Growing Minds in the Liberty Movement"
I guess the original was taken off, but you get the idea from this: "20 of the Hottest Libertarian Men Alive"
More males: "The Top 29 Hottest Libertarian Men"
I just recently discovered this (actually when I was reviewing Cathy's response when writing this), and I guess it is the "official" "Hottest Libertarian Man" list: "20 of the Hottest Libertarian Men Alive"
My favorite because it actually has decent information about these women: "Ten Libertarian Women who are Libertarian Women"
It is not the original list itself that makes me think about the objectification of women, but how people are quick to list off hot women before men. Looking at female celebritarian photos on Facebook, I sometimes see men commenting on how that particular female is not attractive. I have even seen unofficial, casual polls to see who is hotter - including one with Marianne Copenhaver (Libertarian Girl), Julie Borowski, and Cathy Reisenwitz. I have seen followers of those women reassuring them that they are "hotter than ________." Why is there even a supposed "contest" in the first place?
Libertarian Humor posted this picture to their page.
In response to a comment, they said:
"It's more noticeable when a woman who is libertarian changes their profile photo.
Guys act as if they never saw a woman before and at times seem to out-libertarian other guys."
A woman commented on the photo with:
"Libertarian guy: There is a paucity of libertarian females.
Libertarian Facebook page: Here's a list of the hottest female libertarians.
Libertarian guy: These chicks totally aren't hot. Also, number give should be number three. (Not a word about any of the philosophies or accomplishments of the ladies.)
Libertarian female: Oh. I thought I had some kind of value in society that isn't related to superficial traits. *becomes a recluse*"
Some food for thought.
Truthfully, one of the top things I had a problem with is that I did not think a majority were even above-average attractive. Sure, everyone is beautiful in their own way, but I like looking at beautiful (and smart) people too. Maybe I just have high standards.
It reminds me of a joke I made up regarding some men and their low standards: "She is not unattractive, so I think I should try to fuck her."
Most importantly, I was not on the list!
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| My blog so could have used the promotion. |
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| Channeling my 'MURICAN Beauty |
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| You're welcome. |
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| How could I not include this gun photo on my libertarian blog?? |
1. Until we stop living in a patriarchal society, there will continue to be things like "hottest female politicians" in really any field of existence. After all, politicians aren't exactly famous for being attractive, so why not try to cash in on that niche market by exploiting women in the most simple way possible?
ReplyDelete2. Ultimately though it doesn't do any harm to anybody. I mean, I guess hooray for you if you're on the list, sadfaces all around if you're not. But again, we aren't privy to see anything that exploits males as sex symbols in the mainstream market anytime soon because that doesn't fit the straight (white) male narrative. It's why films are so happy to get nude women on board but scarcely involve nude men. I mean, heck, most of the times there are nude men it's in a comedy film, because male nudity can be used humorously. Female nudity is rarely ever regarded as funny, unless said woman is obese or elderly or both.
But yeah, you should forward your picture submissions and demand a revision.
woman are more valued? :) I wasn't offended at all. I was thinking, hmmm I could be on that list… :D
ReplyDeleteYeah. It's an unfortunate reality of patriarchy that women are basically not expected to talk about or be openly sexual. There's still this myth that men want/think about/appreciate sex more than women, and that's been debunked numerous times; women are as sexual as males, but society basically pushes "sexual women" into some sort of niche category, which is why you only rarely get things like Magic Mike, which, of course, did extremely well in the box office (and was legitimately a good film).
ReplyDeleteThere definitely are a few times when male nudity is basically explotation/objectification, but it's more likely we'll have a random topless scene than a random dick scene, unless, again, said random dick scene is in a humorous context (think Hangover, Eurotrip, etc).
WE NEED TO MAKE OUR OWN LIST, GIRL!
ReplyDeleteMagic Mike...meh - personally, I didn't really like it, but I can see how others liked it. Sadly, I still have to educate people about woman sexuality, and that men are not sex-hungry to the point of (almost) losing control, or if they are, it is because it is how society tells them to be. It's surprising (except not really) how little people know about studies on female sexuality. Unfortunately, even as someone who studies gender, this was not information I was exposed to right away. When I met women who were into sex, I legitimately thought they were the "exceptions." Being involved in a school club almost solely inhabited by girls, I sure know now how into sex they can be.
ReplyDeleteWhile centuries and decades of assuming men's and women's attitudes towards sex will not disappear all too quickly, I am glad more and more people are becoming aware of the misinformation and double-standards. Even in libertarian circles, sites like alf.org (Association of Libertarian Feminists) and thoughtsonliberty.com (all women writers) are bringing awareness to these issues.
That reminds me of this joke: if the world was run by women, there would be no wars - just a bunch of countries ignoring each other.
ReplyDeleteI feel that females not knowing much about their sexuality also has to do with the fact that it's harder to see that area, versus with men, you just look down and it's practically all there. With our own bodies, we either have to be able to bend very far down or (more likely) use mirrors. However, this definitely doesn't account for why women generally don't know their bodies well (some of the things you mentioned).
Eh, not to be a sourpuss, but I'm not really keen on sexist humor. I'm glad we've reached the point where nobody can get away with saying things like "well, all blacks do act the same" or "what did you expect? They're Mexicans" without getting huge stares of condemnation for their overt racism, yet, all the time, people blatantly espouse sexist remarks like, "Well, women do act that way" or "all men are alike", as if that's somehow more appropriate since all people can participate.
ReplyDeleteWomen politicians, I've found, tend to be in the upper crust of human behavior. I mean, well, MOST of them (definitely not the Palins and Bachmanns). A part of this, I feel, stems from the fact that men pretty much expect them to fail as politicians, so there's that little something extra that pushes them to prove they're just as qualified.
Your point about genital location is definitely true, but I feel the combination of curiosity (where does your pee come out of? What is down there that feels like it does? That sort of basic stuff) as well as -hopefully- good parental advice and education would really help the self-exploration phase. I mean, little children are the best at playing with their genitals, not knowing of course what they are doing, but yeah, it'd be great if we had a more effective sexual education program across the US that would basically explain to the sexes that self-exploration is normal and really ought to be done.
A lot of people, too, base their values off the "icky" factor. I've known lots of girls who swear that they will never give birth because it's "too gross", which to me sounds like a facet of childishness they'll eventually get over, but obviously there are some people who, even when it concerns their own body, just say eww, no, gross, not gonna bother with it, and there are consequences.
I was reminded of that joke because you said this:
ReplyDelete"While I'm not sexist enough to believe that one gender does a job better than the other, biologically speaking, the lack of testosterone in most women definitely helps things out, I feel. You get less John McCain types demanding we put boots on the ground in every country ever."
The basis for that joke is based in biology (and societal factors too), but I would not say it's sexist, especially since I only hear/see women telling it. That doesn't necessarily make it "correct," but for me and other women, it rings true.
Well, when it comes to things like sexism, it doesn't matter who is saying it; a sexist thought is still a sexist thought.
ReplyDeleteI'm a feminist, of course, but I'm just generally anti gender role/stereotype, and while I realize many jokes basically play to stereotypes, I'm honestly just tired of the way that women are, time after time, viewed as basically being incapable of working together, which is...basically the entire point of the joke. "Haha, isn't it funny? You know? Because women are frequently stereotyped as hating each other and being incapable of working together."
That isn't biology at all. To even say "Well...a lot of women DON'T get along with each other" is really no better than saying "well...a lot of Jews ARE rich" or "a lot of Asians ARE good at math."
Like I said, sorry for potentially coming off as Feminazi over here, but I like to think of myself as somebody with a great sense of humor, and jokes should honestly rely on more than just meager stereotypes, especially since, again, if you think of every time you've said "I don't really get along with girls", or you've heard friends talk about it, or you've witnessed it, or whatever scenario basically bolsters that stereotype in your mind
The key thing to remember is that there are, quite clearly, throngs upon throngs of females who essentially feel the same way, that is, for all this stereotyping that women basically just hate each other, there is quite CLEARLY a LOT of women out there with similar feelings, who could, therefore, probably come to find common ground.
But yeah, women making jokes about/against women doesn't change the end result. After all, women are just as guilty of pushing patriarchy (and all the gender roles/stereotypes associated) as men.
On a side note, I find the stereotype of women hating each other/not getting along hilarious, because men beat the shit out of each other over the simplest, stupidest shit. Yeah there's a stereotype that men are overly competitive, but what about what happens after that: the super, super disdain that separates men over such petty shit?
The reason why I say it's based in biology is because while women may get mad at each other and other genders, they are not as quickly prone to violence as men are (not to say that a man will flip a desk at the slightest aggravation) - they seek other forms of displaying their displeasement (the cold shoulder).
ReplyDeleteI never saw the joke as perpetuating the stereotype of women "hating" and being unable to work with each other. True, I, myself, like befriending males better than females, and I have met a lot of women who feel the same as me. Sometimes women can just get too gossip-y and catty for me, much more than what I've noticed men do. It's a real drag to be around, a lot of negative energy sometimes. I am very guilty of giving people the silent treatment when I am mad with them, as are probably a lot of other females. It's an issue of personal growth and maturity - by learning to communicate more effectively, people can curb their bad habits.
(As for this joke helping keep the patriarchy in place...I really don't see how. Both men and women, socially and biologically, have good and bad traits, and the stereotype of passive aggressiveness [through silent treatment] is not something that is a big enough detriment to withdraw any progress women have made in regards to gender equality in the past century.)
Googling "white people being offended for others" and the like brings up some interesting results and the same theme (doesn't necessarily have to mean being white) - being offended for a group of people you are not a part of can be in turn offensive for them.
http://www.whattamisaid.com/2008/07/may-i-be-offended-on-your-behalf.html